Ford Th!nk City – Video Dump

Here is the Playlist for the Think.

(That is a PLAY LIST, not a Video – so multiple videos)

Some folks think “hey, why so much off-topic?”
Well… that is the actual reality of hacking together extinct platforms. The actual meat and potatoes can only be had once you

  • Climb up the hill
  • Hack thru the bushes
  • Fight back the bugs
  • …..

For instance… the #1 issue with most high voltage Electrified machines is actually failure of the 12V lead acid system! … so… posting the entire adventure is actually more informative than just cooking it down into a YouTube BS video.

  • It is tedious work
  • You will spend more time jumpstarting the lead acid than then 420V traction pack
  • You will spend more time fooling with old keys, J1772 chargers, unbolted seats, dog barf…

Reality

-Schindler

Some of Yesterdays Data

Today I am going to collect data in a more methodical way, but here is a sample of what I picked up yesterday.

You have to be careful with many of the entries. Things are often miss-marked. For instance, Maximum Charge Current very well may be to 10^-1, so if it reads out 392A they may mean 39.2A. Very common practice to offset by orders of magnitude while packing into CAN.

OFTEN… The Software Engineer on the other end does not know their Electrical Rules of Thumb and they miss something like mA, uA, Amps.

Sorry for the rude dump, I have just learned to post up at least SOME of the data before it is lost to “the Schindler Archive”. I have terabytes of projects like this. If I dont share the data then I cant help the next guy.

Often…
The next guy is ME!

Lol… Nobody searches the 4,800 posts of Schindler Engineering more than I do. This is my notebook 😉

When you clear errors and they hold you get this above on next scan. That is a big YEA!

When you clear X errors and X-3 come back, you get a different message alerting you to the fact that some errors were not cleared.

Above shows returning errors. Below shows variants of state

Each system is unique in their vocabulary, but fundamentally they all operate the same.

Inactive
0
Percent
Decimal

Picture all of this being packed into CAN messages and then unpacked. What do they call this one? CAN-FD iirc? Back in the day we had to hand pack all of this. It was true horror.

You have to know which module various messages are coming from. That is not displayed but selected from the Home Screen. After a while, you will know which module generated data.

Before that point, inundation with details. Some excruciatingly important, most CRUFT.

J1772 now reading a much more sane 57F. It looks like the transaction requested 16A of service. We are drawing around 600mA at 122V

122V * 0.6A = 73.2W
Ohms Law

Ok, so we are cooking off ~70W somewhere. That is actually quite a bit of power, far more than some relay coils is my guess.

You never know WHAT they decided to do in the decision tree, so malfunctions in something like the restraint system SHOULD BE CORRECTED! I could totally see some overzealous firmware engineer disabling drive in the event that the restraint system is malfunctioning.

Word to the Wise….

PLUG EVERYTHING IN, EVEN IF ((YOU)) DONT THINK IT IS IMPORTANT
GUYS LIKE ((ME)) PUT HOOKS IN THINGS
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

A system like this may have 42 “Faults” that it will cite as reason for not motoring. There very well may be 17 more which are silent killers. FAFO. Time is Money.

My guess is that the BMS Master is talking. I never did see long lists of String Voltages, but they do not always expose that at the User Level. There may be a lower level tool specifically for Unit Testing the Battery Sub-System.

Wonder if that really is the 575th battery of that year. Could be. It was a really small production run.

Ack
That is a hot bag right there above. We also see some UnderVoltage faults on string B, which implies a string A. I am sticking with my guess that some of the batteries drifted under after a long sit.

I am just peeling off random screen shots. This is not a complete package.

The machine is never going to tell you what the problem is. It is only going to supply data for you to use in determining what the problem is. OBDII in more modern vehicles has become so refined that it will even suggest Part Numbers for Replacement!

This… Not so much

So all the flags associated with charging are set. That may be an interesting place to start looking. I often warn non-firmware programmers of the issue of cascading

IF
One is over-worked, under-paid, and rush

THEN
One does not do a good job parsing errors

ONE
Just grabs a pre-existing error and throws it!!!

Firmware Engineers do this all the time and they have no idea how far down a rabbit hole it sends some folks. Let me explain more clearly

  • Say I have 25 errors which are highly specific
  • I have a new use case where I need to generate a 26th error
  • I am in a hurry and I have 200 things to do before end of quarter….
  • It takes me 20 minutes to go thru the complete process of forming a new 26th error
  • Instead I just throw an existing error. Sometimes with context and sometimes not
  • THIS MEANS
  • That you may get a Generic Error for something specific
  • FAR MORE DISTURBING
  • You may get a Specific Error that is missleading

Read that last line again
I said
YOU MAY GET A SPECIFIC ERROR THAT IS MISSLEADING

Happens
I know because I have done it, many times

I am interested in all this “On Demand Self Test” stuff for certain. 2012 eh? This plastic lego-box is what Ford was putting out while Tesla was rolling out a Model S?

What a fantastic joke

Yes, I see that it is far lighter and more efficient… but one can not use the same term to describe a Model S and a Ford Th!nk City. They are not both EV’s

I had the Ford Think NEV… I would say this City is not far from an NEV. That whole Idea took an absolute HOT SHIT and died. Nissan Leaf was the only one that got close to something viable.

Anyhow, off to my Day Job
I mean my Night Job
I mean… I am looking for a job

This is how I look for work

I just go DO WORK then people come and offer compensation to do work that is in their interest. I am a total sell-sword. I can think your product is disgusting and still force myself to get behind the Quality of it.

  • If it sucks…
  • At least let it suck with some class

-Schindler

BHoLT Project #042 – Update on the Ford Th!nk

Previous Updates

Day 1 Recap
https://schindlerengineering.com/public/2024/05/05/troubleshooting-extinct-platforms/
https://schindlerengineering.com/public/2024/05/05/codiac-godiag-j2534-vs-ford-thnk-city/

Today started with jumpstarting the 12V system using “TruckNutz”

Day 2
There are two running assumptions on why we cant charge with J1772

Player 1 (not me)
He thinks the BMS module is “bad”

Player 2 (me)
He thinks the car just sat too long and the battery resting voltage sagged below the BMS limits.

I want an excuse to break THIS bad boi out

Observations
* The J1772 charger is reporting Freezing conditions at 64F and it is dumping about 60W
* The dashboard linked above (someone elses rig) has a CEL, we actually dont have that! We just have a dead battery notification
* I experienced something similar with a Ford Transport EV – wont take a charge – on that one it was a dead board… but its comms software package actually worked

Links and Updates

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/27279972050/posts/10159593703302051/

GitHub Clues
https://github.com/hrmnc/J2534DllLoader?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1bGf-2pobhlRQ_kIJsdEwF1nr5k6R0IMor7OqipVihfZPwOi9BLlwDjAQ_aem_AYvd7uko3VHw07ls7TJjKX91rrC34wllo7hrDi-AFBDIZ86vw0MJ31Twtwr3-6RwZvhVutdrX5O0uCJmNtupG3IP

Forum in Norwegian (from the YouTube Video)
https://elbilforum.no/index.php?board=29.20

  • I have the Factory Software
  • I have the Aftermarket Dongle
  • I have the PEAK Dongle

We know the XML above guides the Factory Software tool to its “Resource”. Supposedly newer software can work magically, I have not seen that happen yet.

The values entered above are Known Incorrect (KI) – an earlier attempt. Today was written off to BHoLT because … even tho I performed a full factory re-install on the software, the damn bugger did not blow out these files!

SO

All of my troubleshooting today was lost time. PassThruName was set wrong for the PEAK dongle (grrr). I remedied that by absolutely blowing the ASS out of the install with the DELETE button in the file system. SO… when I re-install again, we should get some clean XML.

Lets do that now

That installs first, for a clean un-install you have to blow that out. One shows up as Omnitek and the other one LTD

Still dont know what that window means. It pops up during a CLEAN install. If you dont get that pop-up, dirty install. Anyhow, it will spin forever until you ACK that NAG.

Then you get to install this smoking hot pile of shit. I call it that because it is missing the most critical tool that any Diag software has

  • UNIT TEST

    Just some kind of window to tell me a few binaries
  • The Hardware is connected or not
  • The Vehicle is connected via the hardware

    Right?
    Somebody missed that one, I guess its not a problem if you run the Proprietary Hardware that we dont have

Ok, maybe I just had a bad cache on the last open, because even after DELETING the files and re-installing mine popped with the stale data. I deleted that out of Sublime, now I see the above, which is Factory

<!--<add key="PassThruName" value="OCII Interface" />-->
<add key="PassThruName" value="3G VCI"/>
<add key="PassThruVersion" value="DashTwo" />

So somehow we need to aim that pointer at the dongle, YES?

That can be understood here

https://www.peak-system.com/PCAN-PassThru-API.405.0.html?&L=1

Ok, so we are pointing at an Abstraction

Excellent, if we can just add to this a Virtual Machine or a Legacy WIN7 laptop and some poorly hacked DB9 jumpers we will be at starting point -001

Get your sack frosted with some virus laden links over here… using the above search terms
https://mhhauto.com/Thread-think-city-electric-car-vci-interface

Bah Bugger it all

PEAK drivers installed but no Pass-Thru
Not for GOAG or PEAK
So… I imagine that is the hangup

Now we have at least a little bit more installed over here in the Registry. Earlier hacks worked by drawing the name out of the Registry and placing that in the XML

KEYSTONE

  • This is a KEY WORD
  • HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\PassThruSupport.04.04

So “PassThruSupport.04.04 is generic. It can hold inside of it PEAK – PCAN as well as GODIAG

AH HA

Frost your nads with a bit more Virus Packed goodness here…
https://mega.nz/file/9csFybqb#SFqJjf4WQydz3Q3CrsctirxmUzL2F9D0E9X7lE7FowM

Yea, just keep clicking those links, LOL
Eventually I will get’cha

uh hu
You know I install all that shit

They give you that, which you can RawDawg with, … that is probably only good for confirming your hardware cabling (like CAN_HI, CAN_LO, GND)

  • If you see good hex
  • It MAY be wired correctly

BINGO

Super Obvious now

  • The XML is pointing at the PassThru
  • The PasThru has keywords in it

Off to try it again

PAUSE
OMFG I missed this link before

KEYSTONE

https://hrmnc.github.io/2023/11/16/Installing-Think-Diagnostics.html

Ok, I did a clean install THREE TIMES and my XML is still differing. They are claiming version 2.2.5 and I pulled from their link. Resultant install is

and about half the time I get scripting errors. Probably because it cant find the hardware. I do not always get the errors.

Grrrrrr……

-Schindler

Background Check?

Yes this is P.Schindlers NSFW flash-blog. It used to be my contracting website, but hopefully those days are in the past.

You can find me most active on:

I do not care for any of those platforms, as I am really more of a forum sort of guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

If you really want to find me, seek user “methods” on the forums, or just call (831) 334-0165 and I may answer the phone. For email use Patrick@SchindlerEngineering.com

-Schindler

Identify the broken casting – 390 XP

Before we go hands on, lets familiarize with the exploded diagrams

From our video, we see a broken bit of head casting on the Port side of the machine

Page 21 gives us x-ray vision

That is definitely the “head” of the engine. We can tell that it is Air Cooled by the presence of heat sinks. We can see the spark plug port coming out of the top (single cylinder 2-stroke) and the carburetor feeding in at the stern, top.

We see the flywheel middle bottom with some air moving paddles.

Now is the time to pick off details… like the fact that the engine rotates CW

  • CW = Clockwise
  • CCW = Counter Clockwise
  • CCW = Carrying Concealed Weapon

The unit uses a centrifugal clutch which is very common on Two Stroke engines like this. The man who can teach you the most about carbs and small engines is Musty1. Go check him out on Youtube for a lifelong education

https://www.youtube.com/@mustie1

Search his playlists for something that is a close match

https://www.youtube.com/@mustie1/search?query=chainsaw

See how easy that is?

Oh the irony… Here Musty is trying to de-bugger a Husq. Slightly different model but many principals will apply.

… FYI
The Chainsaw of choice is STIHL

Schindlers current chainsaw playlist (empty at time of writing…)

As I was saying… STIHL
Anywhere you go, if someone can afford it, that is the Chainsaw you want to own

BUT

Here at SE, we like to punish ourselves by working on inferior equipment. ONWARD

So it looks like that is the part we need to get off the engine. Easy enough… right?

We will find out together
I USUALLY post my work public and I ALWAYS take it down after some period of time. I have solved a thousand things and I will solve a thousand more. Every decade or so I set all of my material to PUBLIC

But… this year Youtube decided that I am “Manufacturing Weapons” because I was “Repairing” a piece of shit Bersa California Edition… so moving forward… we wont be sharing source as much.

Thanks Youtube
You have done great letting the kids drive the agenda. Lets see how they crash the ship this time around!

-Schindler

Husqvarna 390XP Thread

WordPress (how I have it installed…) does not really support “threading” so this thread will just spill over into the main channel.

Model Number: Husqvarna 390XP
Bar: Apx 36″ extended
Issue: Squished by a falling tree

Engine: 88cc
Code: HHVXS.0885AA
Produced in Sweden after 2012


Jumping Ahead… I found the SHOP manual and ripped it here. This is not the OWNERS manual, there is a very big difference!

WORKSHOP MANUAL / SHOP MANUAL / REPAIR MANUAL

Step 1 is always to drum up whatever manual is available in PDF. We find this with a Google Search of common name. Sometimes you can get it with more specific PN’s, but common name is usually the first hit.

Common Name? Guessing: 390 XP
That would generate “390 XP Manual” as a Search Term

First hit is the MFG
Not usually the spot where I find the best support, but maybe for Husqvarna.

https://www.husqvarna.com/us/support/390xp

Spot Check 88cc does equal 5.37cuin
Bar is different, but that is a variable
Close enough for Government Work

Operators Manual in PDF

Ok, that rendered. Freely available from the OEM. Cached copy now here. Print that out.

Illustrated parts list comes back bust, with some sort of errata.

May come in handy when it is time to work on the carb, looks like this model may have variants on details (as all things do)

Takes a BPMR7A sparkplug by NGK
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/maintenance-tools/spark-plug/?article=503235111

Clicking out the FULL LIST of manuals, you can find more.

https://www.husqvarna.com/us/support/search-results/?groups=support-products%7Cgrouped-documents&productId=%7B5A9A9B04-F6E3-40DA-847B-1B05E1D31FA8%7D&q=390%C2%A0XP%C2%AE

Nasty looking URL, not bothering to clean it up.

Keep clicking “LOAD MORE” and more will be revealed. Lets pull off the best we can for the Carburetor and Engine Block

BAH
Just a bunch of crap updates. As with most OEM

  • No Shop Manual
  • No Assembly Instructions
  • No clear Parts Blow-up (that I found)

… So we are off to the Wild West to find what we need

PAUSE
(As Schindler searches everywhere on the internet EXCEPT the OEM, as usual…)
RESUME

Posted the link for the actual SHOP manual above, and our task is complete. I will leave it to the reader to ponder why the fuck OEM’s never post things like parts blow-ups, shop manuals, etc. My guess is that their first inclination is to SELL this information.

Then… we just RIP that and share it

SO… I guess it is not profitable enough to SUPPORT the machine you distributed? No idea, dont care. Go find a manual for the Tesla or even my Nissan – lol. Good luck.

-Schindler

Schindler Engineering Adventures – Open Water

If you trust that Android software we averaged 18mph and did not exceed 42mph over a 24min window.

Wind was blowing, fog was in, tide was coming up, choppy but no huge swells.

As usual, the sun broke thru as we were loading the boat back into the trailer. Fine by me, this was just a test run. No matter how strong the urge…. I keep the first day of the season short so we can

  • Look for leaks
  • Check the gear fluid
  • Check the oil
  • Check the coolant
  • Check the bilge pump again
  • Check the vent again
  • …..

Starter was hesitant twice. Both times First Turn after letting the engine cool off from completely warm.

First we puttered the harbor up and back. Made a stop to do some Magnet Fishing, the usual. Tyler is now a member of the Yacht Club, so we now have access to the doc and hoist on the other side of the harbor (!)

After we got our “hair did” with some ocean spray we performed the first radio check at 1 mile out. You know it’s a mile out…. Because there’s a large buoy called “Mile Buoy”.

Yep. Schindlers living the dream.

-Schindler

Engineering Judgement

On this drive I pull no punches while describing the pivotal difference between good engineering and poor engineering.

I describe the difference between Accuracy and Precision…. and I show that Precision is a Requirement (required precursor) of Accuracy.

I relate key words like RELIABILITY to key words like PRECISION and explain again why (anything) in the absence of Reliability is of low value.

We talk about the importance of employing the scientific method, and I come to some unwavering conclusions that I can exhaustively argue (to a Logical and Reasonable end…. ) In the run-on-sentence style of Debate.

Where

I don’t have to commit any logical fallacies or come to any incorrect conclusions to win the argument, win the debate, etc. I am closer to “self evident proof” than “exhaustive argument” – …..

You will likely find that anyone who wants to argue the contrary, will have to employ many logical fallacies, including exhaustive argument (lol)

I try not to argue until I know I’m right. Usually I don’t have to.

-Schindler